I never really thought about how AJ never really felt as close to Timmy compared to Chester, and I'm not sure why that is. I think stuff like Chester getting Cosmo and Wanda if Timmy isnt around makes the difference for people
A second Wishology would probably parody the MCU
Season 6>Season 10>Season 8>Season 7>Season 9
No, the fact that she knows about fairies is a part of what makes her unique as a character since every other friend he's had doesnt know about them. She'd be less interesting
It's been reopened because it's not surprising a yeas old thread is getting a little off topic and the discussion is still fine, if things get toxic then we can close it again. Or I'd suggest people go back on topic and start a new thread to talk about other things then. In which case the answer is no she doesnt but that's what makes the pairing good.
If Chloe were Spongebob Squidqward would be Timmy
1) Haven't had much time to experiment with a fix for the episode overhead tab. It appears to use multiple different tabs for each page. I think there might be a more universal way of doing this but it will require replacing a LOT of these templates. Probably an all-week project for one user.
2) The fanworks board I suggested wasn't really much of a success and I'm not surprised since most of the content creators died off. Even I rarely draw this show anymore (although in a poll I put to my followers, Tootie came in second place after a Loud House mystery box option, but I'm currently working on a Danny Phantom art). Truth be told I had no idea this place had a discord, let alone an active one, and that seems to be where most fanworks are being posted. Its MUCH easier to upload fanart there than here. For fanfiction, you have sites like FFN and AO3 so I don't think anyone will post stories here, layout of wikia in general is way too wonky.
Master100000 I think the problem you are having involves the more "user friendly" editor which is complete dogcrap. You have to use the text-based code editor which is available as a dropdown option.
There's just a standard and mini tab for both episodes and characters, unless there's more Im unaware of. Ive never thought that they needed to be merged before, it is interesting but like you said that involves fixing either every episode or every character, and that's gonna extend to stuff like the images/episodes/trivia pages for each as well. That I think may be too late to change. Though I have considered adding the character tab for locations as well since those pages currently have nothing.
Also yeah fanart is isolated to actual websites, we're long past people posting stuff to a forum like this when they can just post to Deviantart/Twitter. Im sure even people who do post art are completely unaware of here. Though I do plan on posting my comic here once the backlog gets bigger.
Anyone's guess is to why they didn't use Vicky. Maybe it would make it seem like her and Timmy were married, which goes against the spirit of the future being ambiguous, unless they explicitly state she's not, which ALSO goes against the spirit of being ambiguous (Hartman has joked about Vicky/Timmy being a dark horse ship before). Of course, if they had taken the ballsy move of canonizing Timmy/Tootie right then and there, and used Vicky in the scene as an evil wine auntie or something, would have been far more entertaining than anything else and probably set the table for a "future FOP revival" which would've been better than any of the absolute trash we got from this cartoon from 2006 onward.
I think the evil deadly Vicky robot was just what the writers see as a logical step forward from the "Vicky is explicitly violent and evil" character they basically turned her into after a season and a half. It goes with the "every character is a super exaggerated version of a cartoon archetype" that became the show's bread and butter somewhere between Seasons 2 and 3.
Though that's not really a defense or excuse but more an explanation, especially since I know a tonne of people hate that change in her too. For me there's some gags that are so clearly gags that I dont even see them as real events, such as this (I never really thought about it your way before tbh) or for another example, Chloe calling the president in Fairy Share Scare. At the same time it's super selective for me because I totally took the "Mom is a CIA double agent" gag completely seriously.
I do agree with Butch needing to undermine heartfelt moments with jokes, that's a problem with Simpsons ever since probably Season 9.
And on that subject, Tb brought up hardcoded elements... I think you mean things found under MediaWiki:Wikia.css Common.css Wkia.js ... Ill be honest I frakensteined most of the code together and some of it, like the stuff that controlled the Era template, is defunct. Good luck!
I highly recommend finding a small thing to fix and focusing on that. You'll never get anything done if you just jump into change something that's happening across every page
But before all that was revealed, Chloe was seen as this perfect girl who helped everyone. And her being revealed to not be perfect later in the episode was the whole point and is why she needed fairies in the first place.
And yet, people still claim her to being a mary sue, despite the evidence.
I think its really funny that the point of the premiere was that she seemed perfect, and Timmy had to learn that everyone has problems, he shouldnt pre-judge someone and should accept new people in his life and the new possibilities that come because of it, and by the end of the episode he learned all of these things and the fandom didnt.
Im just saying it would be good to let people know what's going on, though I came on here right as you left so I have no idea how you did things.
Now, I'm not saying long pages are bad, I'm just saying sometimes these articles get repetive or just don't get to the point. In another thread, Pooka showed did a great job shortening the FOP pilot episode. This is what I mean. Let's try to keep in mind what audiences will likely read this wiki: Kids, maybe nostalgic adults, but mostly preteens watching the Nicktoons Network which is where this show seemingly lives on. Lets try to keep stuff simple, think elementary school level, not literature major.
Obviously, stuff like Channel Chasers or Wishology are epics in their own right and will probably have long pages no matter how you simplify them, but that much is obvious.
I meant more for character and lore stuff, I dont think individual episode pages should be long at all really. Except for the big ones or ones that have a million things in them like Fairly Odd Fairy Tales. And yeah repetitiveness is an issue.
I'm gonna try and chime in with the episode synopsis stuff (probably espcially for S9 which is the one even people who like the modern era didnt watch) but now that I have the time to be here again I'll probably continue my own project which is fixing a navbox and then fixing all the pages related to it, which has been pretty effective. Regardless the biggest goal of the wiki for like 3 years has been just trimming all the useless stuff away and ordering what's left.
She wasnt even a perfect character in her debut episode, she destroyed her old town, moved to Dimmsdale and then almost destroyed there too with her very first wish, then said she has no friends. Her flaws became more apparent later on in the season but she was never perfect for more than probably 15 minutes.
Personally I lost all interest in this show after the Sparky and Chloe seasons, and I know I'm not the only one... but if there are those of you that wish to at least salvage my hard work I would be eternally grateful.
Anyway, a few other thoughts...
1. The badges while cute and creative, I've seen this happen on other wikis where "badge hunting" becomes a thing and people make dimwitted and often unneeded edits or worthless articles entirely just to rack up their edit count. This seems like less of an issue here because this place is so inactive and this cartoon is basically dead, but its something that should be looked at warily.
2. There seems to be a bit of disagreement on how exactly we should approach character articles and how they are divided up, considering many are too long already but at the same time you have tabs like trivia or quotes which are hilariously short in comparison in some cases. Some articles are just full of repetition and run-on paragraphs. I took a crack at cleaning up Tootie's page the other day and was able to shorten it by 1000 or so characters, even though I actually added a bit of information.
3. The last two seasons episode pages are woefully incomplete. I don't have that many recordings from episodes those seasons... many of those episodes are aggressively terrible. But some of them just straight up lack even a basic synopsis.
Seems extremely wierd to get admin status from a very inactive admin without any of the actives one knowing and I have to comment on how that looks (bad), though I dont know the details to know who I'm directing that to in this exchange.
Regardless, that's what happens when you have a long running show. You are gonna have extremely long pages, or a million short ones. Look at places like the Doctor Who wiki where they have both. I think its unrealistic trying to expect less from a 15 year old cartoon tbh, we should just work on balancing it better, Ive been doing a lot of page merging.
I would say the last two seasons are incomplete, but I'd also say the older ones are too long. Basically I think most episode pages are a mess.
Coming to this years later, Im personally against putting all the tabs on one page, pages being too long is bad and I think some wikis dont do it right. But we did delete most of the character Quotes then merged it with Trivia, and I think putting appearances in either the triva or main page tab is a possible good idea. Not that nobody should have all their info on one page (many people do) its just the show has gone on too long for it to be feasable for everyone.
You have to remember that the initial cleanup of this wiki was around when S10 started, and there's literal years of useless pages and bad editing decisions to wade through. Like, ive personally being going through different navboxes and trying to fix all the pages related to them, and updating all the comic book stuff alone took a couple weeks. Even now thanks to recent edits Im looking to merging all the tonnes of Fairly Odd Fairly tales stuff into just 3 or so pages and the thought of it is giving me a headache.
On the forums thing you're basically completely right (though I dunno what the other admins think). Social media has basically killed all forums and this site is pretending that's not the case. I never use the forum, I just click on whatever thread I se show up in Wiki Activity. We really just need one or two forums now, and bringing stuff like art and theories sounds like a fine idea.
Also small addenum the Super Sitter plot was bad in general, the original plot of Vicky meets Chloe should have removed Spellementary School kids entirely and just been about Vicky having to babysit Chloe and she's so well behaved she just listens to everything Vicky says and starts unwillingly terrorising the town. Or she so unquestionly follows authority that she cant even conceptualise that Vicky was treating her bad and tells Timmy she think's Vicky is fine. Or Chloe hates her and wants to leave but cant without breaking the rules so Timmy needs to go to her house and save her. What Im saying is these plots write themselves and its lame seeing it get wasted like that. Also they should have just made Poof talk normal, its not like they didnt have Tara Strong.
The problem here is, you're dismissing evidence of Tootie's character traits as not really counting or being misinterpreted, when the broad strokes you put upon her (that she is not outgoing, not helpful, and not smart) have absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Hell the main reason Tootie even has as much support as she does in the fandom is because she is so helpful in several key instances in the show. TooYube wrote:A plot about Tootie being so busy going around the town helping people that she gets a rash You're basing this theoretical season off of Season 10 plots, which mostly sucked, and featured Chloe and Timmy in a vacuum occasionally bouncing off of overused or fourth-rate side characters like Mr. Bickles. Just having an established character with a gameplan would have given rise to better plots than having a literal stranger that the viewer is being forced at gunpoint to care about. Try to envision how that awful Certified Super Sitter episode would have gone with Vicky and Tootie facing off (and for once, Tootie beating her older sister 1v1) for instance rather than Chloe having lightsaber battle #985021984719871494.
And because I forget how to multiquote:
" The problem here is, you're dismissing evidence of Tootie's character traits as not really counting or being misinterpreted, when the broad strokes you put upon her (that she is not outgoing, not helpful, and not smart) have absolutely no evidence whatsoever."
You're confusing things you can INFER from a character's actions to what a show is DELBERATELY trying to tell you with a character's actions. Im saying that the show specifically wants you to read that Chloe is a person who feels a compulsion to help people, is incredibly nice/outgoing/smart/etc (it was never my intention to stick to these very specific adjectives). You can take events from Tootie's time on the show, give specific reads to them, and flesh her out, but that's what youd be doing, because the show never deliberately trys to tell you she's got the same attributes Chloe has. What you are doing is good, and I respect it, and I'd even say I agreed with your arguements that you could use those events as examples to expand on. But it's not what I'm talking about. Like I said before, your idealised show with idealised characters is a good one, its just not what we have now. And Im saying that as someone who enjoyed about 90% of this show from start to finish.
As for the last paragraph, I genuinely think you're not getting my point, because Im not doing that. The fact that plots would need to be changed or shifted for Tootie to replace Chloe is my point. I'm personally happier with the new character, but I never said the potential wasnt there, and have several times mentioned that it would have been good. Your potential Certifiable Super Sitter idea is great, why would I ever say otherwise? Everyone knows Butch likes Star Wars too much. Im arguing against the idea that Tootie was just like her and could have filled the same role, because the roles would be very different, that's all really.
The main characters existing in a vaccuum is a pretty big problem I also agree with and I wanna talk about that too but my response(s) are gonna get too long so I'll stop. If you cant tell I like talking about FoP and rarely get the chance to do so.
Wishology was about Timmy becoming a hero and growing as a character. Trixie was given to him as a reward, there was no build up to it and her reason for liking him (he has all-powerful magic) was as shallow as it gets. As a result, it caused Timmy to receive limited character growth as he is essentially handed his crush with no effort, rhyme or reason. The sacrifice scene in particular having Trixie over Tootie was a crime. Having Timmy realize that Tootie was supportive of him all along and coming to good terms with her is good character growth, while having "Trixie likes him now because he's the chosen one and can give her free stuff" has no substance to anyone other than brainlet shippers who just wanted their waifu to "win".
Despite all that, Trixie doesn't suck either. She had a role on the show, she fulfilled it very well at times, and plenty of people (like me) still like her character, certainly more than Chloe. The problem is they dragged her love angle on for too long and had instances of revival of her ship when it should have ended definitively at Just the Two of Us. Other than being a prize blow up doll for the hero, she had no stimulative role in the movie despite the character designer going through the trouble of giving her a badass looking costume. Her ship with Timmy was certainly the shackles and prisonball around her ankles, you're right about that, but her potential as a standalone character was there, they just failed to act upon it in later seasons.
I dont disagree with any of this, and that's the problem here. She has potential. They all do, all the character dynamics in the show are solid and there are points where that potential shines through, but the reality is a lot of the time they didnt. You keep thinking of the idealised versions of the characters being good as proof the actual versions are. I can understand liking an idealised Trixie more than Chloe (because I have no real use in telling you your opinions arent valid, even saying the S10 plots were bad makes little sense to me because I thought most of them were pretty solid/great but whatever) but current Trixie simply isnt fleshed out enough to compare to most of the other kids in the show except maybe AJ, who they also did little with overall.
If you are making content that arent just either complaining about the modern episodes, fetish stuff or shipping stuff and wanting to do more with their potential then I actually greatly encourage it because more is always better.
Those as all representations of Tootie expressing her love for Timmy in exaggerated ways rather than things to be taken literally and more broadly. Those character moments arent supposed to infer anything other than she really likes Timmy. Obsessively telling your crush you like them is not the same as being outgoing with everyone you meet. I admit Ive never seen Kung Timmy (and its probably the only episode in the first 8 seasons I have missed so lucky) so I cant comment on that (and unless Im mistaken she hasnt built anything other than a "Timmy Tracker" which isnt supposed to infer anything except she loves Timmy.) There are certainly ways you can use subtext to expand her character, but they were rarely intentional or deliberate.
Deep Toot is good, but that brings me to my point (which I said earlier) which is that she absolutely could have worked, and it would have been fine, but it would not have been the same. A plot about Tootie being so busy going around the town helping people that she gets a rash and needs to learn to relax, a plot about Tootie feeling presure from her parents to always live up to their high standards, or a plot about the escalating tension that comes with Tootie being unable to say no and dissapoint someone could not hapen without adding to or changing her character until she's something different, because Chloe is fleshed out in a specific way and Tootie is fleshed out in a specific way. If I were to expand Tootie (and will eventually, since Im making the comic) I'd personally focus on her determination and loneliness/alienation above all else.
I will say there are more ways in which they are similar than I thought, she would definitely be a good Squirely Scout for starters.
Spongebob, longest running show on the channel, was also pulling 2 million. "FoP had bad ratings by being third in the channel and pulling higher ratings than its major competetor" only exists in the Nickbrained world of a tv station having only two cartoons. And again, these were higher than Harvey Beaks as well (shame because Beaks is better than everything mentioned here). It's wrong and just saying it isnt wrong wont make it stop being wrong. FoP got cancelled and uncancelled literally every season after S4 ended, what happened in S10 wasnt special at all and Im pretty confident that if Butch never left it would have come back again for 11.
Timmy has not, a single time in the entire 11 season run, mentioned what about Trixie he loves (and if Im wrong then I'd actually want to be reminded). We can assume she looks good and he likes that she's popular but that's it. Outside the outlier episode she has never shown any affection towards him that wasnt born of possesiveness, or an interest in what he can give her. And that is because the reason doesnt matter, as she's a plot device. There has definitely been some nice moments, and Wishology works better with her than Tootie. On a whole though, ship sucks and she sucks.